Tuesday, October 11, 2005

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posted by David Jahn @ 10/11/2005 01:02:00 AM  

27 Old Comments:

Doug, it's 3:00 a.m. dude, go to bed.

By Anonymous Anonymous, at 10/11/2005 1:17 AM  

An idea:

Assume a public defender is ordered to represent Irwin, ask the PUBLIC defender to show the law under which his defendent is being charged. If he cannot produce the law.....?

By Anonymous Anonymous, at 10/11/2005 6:53 AM  

To Irwin: **************
If the following is true and correct maybe it will help you … the Code of Federal Regulations, NOT the Internal Revenue Code, are considered to be official publications of the federal government because they are "judicially noticed" (courts must defer to them) and because they are considered by law to be official supplements to the Federal Register.

Holding, overhead, the code may be a weak point...HOLDING up the corresponding CODE OF FEDERAL REGULATIONS, may be AN Answer!!!!!!!!CJ ************

By Anonymous Anonymous, at 10/11/2005 8:23 AM  

The constitution is the highest law of the land not the Supreme Court or some little weasel like Dawson. The thirteenth Amendment is very clear the government may not hold the citizens in servitude. When you tax my salary or wages you are holding me in servitude.
The Thirteenth Amendment
Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.
The Sixteenth Amendment is a mute point. The congress has the right to collect taxes as long as it is not from my salary or wages. I am not the governments’ servant. The government is however our servant. In case they have forgotten.
John

By Anonymous Anonymous, at 10/11/2005 9:59 AM  

How can you be a "slave" when you are perfectly free to leave at any time.

What a stupid argument.

By Anonymous Anonymous, at 10/11/2005 11:50 AM  

And how can you be such a "slave" to not thinking?

What a great arguement?

By Anonymous Anonymous, at 10/11/2005 12:08 PM  

The United States accounts for half the worlds entire prison population. When will your luck run out?

By Anonymous Anonymous, at 10/11/2005 12:10 PM  

And they are all innocent; right, right . . .

Spoken like somebody with a criminal record; like Irwin!

By Anonymous Anonymous, at 10/11/2005 12:17 PM  

No SILLY don't put words in your mouth, put thoughts in your mind! Why would it be that the "most free people" are the most jailed? Read -

It will be of little avail to the people that the laws are made by men of their own choice if the laws be so voluminous that they cannot be read, or so incoherent that they cannot be understood.
James Madison

Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe. Frank Zappa

By Anonymous Anonymous, at 10/11/2005 12:30 PM  

"How can you be a "slave" when you are perfectly free to leave at any time.

What a stupid argument."

Actually this argument was true up until about 1995 when the U.S. Gvt. made a whole assortment of laws to try to prevent U.S. Citizens from walking out of the country with all THEIR money (even after tax money by the way). It came about because many wealthy U.S. citizens were requesting to revoke their citizenship to escape the U.S. tax net. Clinton got wind of this and with other legislative leaders decided to try to blockade Americans from exiting the country with their funds. Go and try to revoke your U.S. citizenship and you will soon understand what these new laws from the last 10 years are all about. There are now litmus tests and those who have made a certain amount of income or who are leaving with a certain amount of assets in their name will be required to file a U.S. tax return for the next 10 years, even though they are no longer U.S. citizens. They will also have to pay other asset (not income) taxes on their way out, up-front. So the idea that a U.S. citizen is free to leave is not exactly true unless you have no financial means that the U.S. Gvt. wants to get their hands on in the future.

This is another example of the hypocrisy and convoluted nature of personal liberty in the U.S. today.

By Anonymous Anonymous, at 10/11/2005 12:39 PM  

Nobody has to pay up-front taxes to leave the country, that is just more paranoid lies.

Take all your cash and head for the Mexican border. Nobody will stop you, although you might be trampled by all the Mexicans trying to get in.

"Slavery" is just another empty argument by the TP deadbeats.

By Anonymous Anonymous, at 10/11/2005 12:43 PM  

Directly from the IRS website:

"Expatriation after June 3, 2004

The American Jobs Creation Act (AJCA) of 2004 amends Section 877 of the Internal Revenue Code (IRC), which provides for an alternative tax regime for certain, expatriated individuals. Amended IRC 877 eliminates the tax avoidance criteria for imposition of the expatriation tax on certain types of income for 10 years following expatriation, and creates objective criteria to impose the tax on individuals with an average income tax liability of $124,000 for the 5 prior years or a net worth of $2,000,000 on the date of expatriation. In addition, it requires individuals to certify to the IRS that they have satisfied all federal tax requirements for the 5 years prior to expatriation and requires annual information reporting for each taxable year during which an individual is subject to the rules of IRC 877. Further, expatriated individuals will be subject to U.S. tax on their worldwide income for any of the 10 years following expatriation in which they are present in the U.S. for more than 30 days, or 60 days in the case of individuals working in the U.S. for an unrelated employer. Finally, even if they do not meet the monetary thresholds for imposition of the IRC 877 expatriation tax, the new law provides that individuals will continue to be treated as U.S. citizens or long-term residents for U.S. tax purposes until they have notified the Secretary of the Department of State or of Homeland Security of expatriation or termination of residency. The implementation date of this provision is retroactive and applies to expatriations occurring after June 3, 2004. The expatriation is not effective until the notification and tax satisfaction certifications are filed with the IRS and the Department of State or of Homeland Security."

So the reality is yes Americans with either substantial income from the previous 5 years OR substantial assets are not entirely 'free' to leave with these regulations as they stand today.

By the way, try walking through any customs control throughout the world with more than 10kUS and you will find yourself being asked many questions.

By Anonymous Anonymous, at 10/11/2005 12:52 PM  

Great data 1:52 pm! To date the "non-koolaide" drinking crowd has failed to make a claim that withstood the most simple of tests.

Some people can reconcile that debt is wealth. The US is alleged to be the richest nation and at the same time it has a larger debt, per asset, than other nations.
The US is marketed as the “most free” nation, yet the law is voluminous and lawyers take up a huge percentage of the Yellow Pages.

The very same people, having too much debt feel broke/poor. The very same people are currently breaking some law; just no one has charged them yet.

Name something in the US that is NOT controlled, taxed, regulated or otherwise restricted by government?

Why is the US down on the list of economically free nations? Why is poverty rising? Why are so many people, who never harmed anyone, jailed?

It is all about commerce you see. Currency (bills of exchange) flows through and is created through the prison system. No not black helicopter stuff sillies, if you would read entire acts, facts and documents you would know this too. And don’t say I hate American and should leave. Until you reconcile the difference between America and the US you’ve nothing to counter with. CJ

By Anonymous Anonymous, at 10/11/2005 1:08 PM  

Since you Hate America or Hate the United States (or even the united States) so much, feel free to leave and find someplace where you think you will be happy.

Most Americans are more or less satisfied with the way things are, which is why there is no real groundswell to change things, a gazillion posts on the fringe groups forums notwithstanding.

Irwin Schiff will die in prison, just like Phil Marsh of the Pilot Connection died in prison, and by the time he does all of his followers will have forgotten about him and moved on to some new snake oil selling guru, just like the Phil Marsh supporters did. History will repeat itself, again.

By Anonymous Anonymous, at 10/11/2005 1:49 PM  

"So the reality is yes Americans with either substantial income from the previous 5 years OR substantial assets are not entirely 'free' to leave with these regulations as they stand today."

People who buy Schiff products tend to be low income, low net worth.

By Anonymous Anonymous, at 10/11/2005 1:56 PM  

Anonymous said...

Most Americans are more or less satisfied with the way things are, which is why there is no real groundswell to change things,

Actually that is hogwash. Most Americans are more or less not satisfied with the way things are but are just to AFRAID to do anything about it.

You can make people do anything or BELIEVE anything out of fear. But things are changing! America IS WAKING UP, America is GETTING EDUCATED and all these insults are just becoming childish babble.

By Anonymous Anonymous, at 10/11/2005 2:13 PM  

"So the reality is yes Americans with either substantial income from the previous 5 years OR substantial assets are not entirely 'free' to leave with these regulations as they stand today."

'People who buy Schiff products tend to be low income, low net worth.'

IF this is the case, then logic precludes that Schiff's followers have more rights to revoke their U.S. citizenship than those U.S. Citizens with substantial income and assets. This is the ultimate irony that the group with the most income and assets want out of the U.S. and therefore the subsequent IRS regulations to lock them in as best as possible.

Freedom is truly an illusion.

By Anonymous Anonymous, at 10/11/2005 2:13 PM  

I swear to god and my own life!

If I am ever convicted unfairly due a cooperation between the judge and the prosecutors for something I didn't do wrong,
I will cut up the judge and the prosecutors and their families and possessions (wives, children, pets)and put their body parts all over the state I was convicted in.

By Anonymous Anonymous, at 10/11/2005 2:24 PM  

"the ultimate irony that the group with the most income and assets want out of the U.S."

Do you have any evidence that either Bill Gates or Warren Buffet or any of the other wealthiest Americans want out of the U.S.?

Looks like the rants of the pool cleaners and firewood haulers that constitute the bulk of the Schifty supporters whining mostly.

By Anonymous Anonymous, at 10/11/2005 2:31 PM  

Anonymous said...
I swear to god and my own life!

If I am ever convicted unfairly due a cooperation between the judge and the prosecutors for something I didn't do wrong,
I will cut up the judge and the prosecutors and their families and possessions (wives, children, pets)and put their body parts all over the state I was convicted in.

10/11/2005 3:24 PM
************************

Blog Admin, I just flagged this blog due to the above post.

By Anonymous Anonymous, at 10/11/2005 2:31 PM  

"Do you have any evidence that either Bill Gates or Warren Buffet or any of the other wealthiest Americans want out of the U.S.?"

You dummie..at that wealth level, these guys have foundations that are exempt from taxation. Thus, the constant news about Bill Gates' donations to himself through XYZ Foundation. The type of people that are shipping out are the 100-500K and 1-5Million in net-worth group.

You clearly underestimate who is watching this trial and it could be a large group of U.S. Citizens with substantial wealth behind them.

By Anonymous Anonymous, at 10/11/2005 2:39 PM  

"You dummie..at that wealth level, these guys have foundations that are exempt from taxation. Thus, the constant news about Bill Gates' donations to himself through XYZ Foundation."

You shouldn't make up stories when you don't know what you're talking about. Gates has put a small percentage of his stock into the Gates Foundations. He owns the rest of his stock ($40 billion) along with his $60 home outright. You can easily verify his net worth outside the tax exempt charity by looking up the stock ownership records on the SEC website.

Also, didn't you know that Bill Gates' father recently took out full page ads in the national papers encouraging Congress to vote for higher taxes?

By Anonymous Anonymous, at 10/11/2005 2:50 PM  

"You clearly underestimate who is watching this trial and it could be a large group of U.S. Citizens with substantial wealth behind them."

Gosh, and here I thought it was just the typical bunch of unemployed TP losers.

By Anonymous Anonymous, at 10/11/2005 2:54 PM  

"You clearly underestimate who is watching this trial and it could be a large group of U.S. Citizens with substantial wealth behind them."

That doesn't match what we've seen in the trial. We've seen a truck driver, a pool cleaner, a fireman, etc. Irwin's client list looks like the Village People...

By Anonymous Anonymous, at 10/11/2005 2:55 PM  

"Also, didn't you know that Bill Gates' father recently took out full page ads in the national papers encouraging Congress to vote for higher taxes?"

Fine...let's pay higher taxes...this will be a boom for China and Southeast Asia as more and more of the remaining U.S. manufacturing base and wealthy U.S. citizens relocate there in the years to come.

By Anonymous Anonymous, at 10/11/2005 3:01 PM  

"You shouldn't make up stories when you don't know what you're talking about. Gates has put a small percentage of his stock into the Gates Foundations. He owns the rest of his stock ($40 billion) along with his $60 home outright. You can easily verify his net worth outside the tax exempt charity by looking up the stock ownership records on the SEC website."

Yeah right..and how much of his assets have been shuffled offshore into these "Foundations" that remain untraceable through the SEC or any other resource that are available to you.


Good luck finding out what the real net worth is.....

By Anonymous Anonymous, at 10/11/2005 3:07 PM  

Judge is obviously bought and paid for by the IRS buttressed by his looking through the wealth redistribution socialism prism most lawyers are taught from day 1 at law school as traditionally most lawyers are democrats...gee, go figger.

If there were 5 dems, 5 rep's and 2 libertarians(cross hatch of America) on this jury it'd be a slam dunk for Irwin...anyone know their makeup or was that already decided in the begining of the trial, too?

By Anonymous Anonymous, at 10/11/2005 4:59 PM